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	<title>Comments for Formal Philosophy</title>
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	<description>Official Blog of the Formal Philosophy Workshop at the University of Chicago</description>
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		<title>Comment on 5/12: Aidan Gray by Aidan Gray</title>
		<link>http://cas.uchicago.edu/workshops/formalphilosophy/2009/05/09/512-aidan-gray/comment-page-1/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>Aidan Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 21:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cas.uchicago.edu/workshops/formalphilosophy/?p=120#comment-23</guid>
		<description>Hi Mike and Matt,

Thanks for the comments.

Mike: You&#039;re probably right that (Q) doesn&#039;t have unique status with respect to this problem - other norms might also interfere with the coordination strategy involved in developing canonical modes of reference. I mentioned (Q) because philosophers take it - or something like it - to be a fundamental norm which governs communication. That there is a default presupposition that speakers typically obey (Q) defines the space in which the kind of rational interaction that conversation is can take place.

I like the example of junk DNA. It is like the converse of the claim I&#039;m making. I&#039;m claiming: if you want some way of identifying an object, you should isolate the procedures for generating such identification from potentially conflicting norms. Conversely: if some process is isolated from potentially conflicting norms (as the transmission of junk DNA is isolated from natural selection) it&#039;s outputs can be used to identify objects with which they are associated (i.e. organisms)

Matt: you&#039;re right to point out that the predicate view of names has some interesting consequences for the problem of negative existentials. Those consequences will be the subject of a latter chapter of the dissertation. The situation is not quite as simple as you state it, though. According to the predicate view, names are basically analogous to incomplete definite descriptions. Definite descriptions do have a presupposition of existence, so there is still a question about negative existentials. Under what conditions are we allowed to violate that presupposition? Under what conditions could I sensibly say something like &#039;The president does not exist&#039; ? What exactly would I then be taken to assert?

Aidan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mike and Matt,</p>
<p>Thanks for the comments.</p>
<p>Mike: You&#8217;re probably right that (Q) doesn&#8217;t have unique status with respect to this problem &#8211; other norms might also interfere with the coordination strategy involved in developing canonical modes of reference. I mentioned (Q) because philosophers take it &#8211; or something like it &#8211; to be a fundamental norm which governs communication. That there is a default presupposition that speakers typically obey (Q) defines the space in which the kind of rational interaction that conversation is can take place.</p>
<p>I like the example of junk DNA. It is like the converse of the claim I&#8217;m making. I&#8217;m claiming: if you want some way of identifying an object, you should isolate the procedures for generating such identification from potentially conflicting norms. Conversely: if some process is isolated from potentially conflicting norms (as the transmission of junk DNA is isolated from natural selection) it&#8217;s outputs can be used to identify objects with which they are associated (i.e. organisms)</p>
<p>Matt: you&#8217;re right to point out that the predicate view of names has some interesting consequences for the problem of negative existentials. Those consequences will be the subject of a latter chapter of the dissertation. The situation is not quite as simple as you state it, though. According to the predicate view, names are basically analogous to incomplete definite descriptions. Definite descriptions do have a presupposition of existence, so there is still a question about negative existentials. Under what conditions are we allowed to violate that presupposition? Under what conditions could I sensibly say something like &#8216;The president does not exist&#8217; ? What exactly would I then be taken to assert?</p>
<p>Aidan</p>
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		<title>Comment on 5/12: Aidan Gray by Matt Teichman</title>
		<link>http://cas.uchicago.edu/workshops/formalphilosophy/2009/05/09/512-aidan-gray/comment-page-1/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Teichman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 16:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cas.uchicago.edu/workshops/formalphilosophy/?p=120#comment-22</guid>
		<description>That was a fascinating talk.  It&#039;s changing the way I think about names.

Here is a naive thought I had the other day: perhaps your view takes care of the problem of negative existentials.  For there isn&#039;t anything unusual about statements like &quot;Unicorns don&#039;t exist&quot;--in Frege-ese that becomes something like &quot;The concept &#039;is a unicorn&#039; has an empty extension.&quot;  Only negative existentials which feature logically proper names (like &quot;Santa Claus doesn&#039;t exist&quot;) pose a problem.  But if &quot;Santa Claus&quot; is a predicate, then perhaps Santa Claus sentences are no different from unicorn sentences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was a fascinating talk.  It&#8217;s changing the way I think about names.</p>
<p>Here is a naive thought I had the other day: perhaps your view takes care of the problem of negative existentials.  For there isn&#8217;t anything unusual about statements like &#8220;Unicorns don&#8217;t exist&#8221;&#8211;in Frege-ese that becomes something like &#8220;The concept &#8216;is a unicorn&#8217; has an empty extension.&#8221;  Only negative existentials which feature logically proper names (like &#8220;Santa Claus doesn&#8217;t exist&#8221;) pose a problem.  But if &#8220;Santa Claus&#8221; is a predicate, then perhaps Santa Claus sentences are no different from unicorn sentences.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 5/5: Sean Ebels-Duggan by Mike O'Donnell</title>
		<link>http://cas.uchicago.edu/workshops/formalphilosophy/2009/04/27/55-sean-ebels-duggan/comment-page-1/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike O'Donnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 20:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cas.uchicago.edu/workshops/formalphilosophy/?p=112#comment-21</guid>
		<description>I think I should not have said, &quot;simultaneoulsy searches for a proof of P and a proof of NOT Provable(P).&quot; Rather, it should have been &quot;a proof of NOT Provable(P) and a proof of NOT Provable(NOT P).&quot; That&#039;s the form that is supported directly by the formula expressing consistency. I think (still worried that I&#039;ve missed a loophole) that the special forms of formulae expressing the values of provably total computable functions make NOT Provable(NOT P) a satisfactory substitute for P.

That is, to get an actual value of a provably total computable function, there is indeed a proof of P, and with provable consistency that yields a proof of NOT Provable (NOT P), and rules out a proof of NOT Provable(P). So, the search above indeed finds all of the values of the provably totally computable functions. It cannot find an incorrect value, because the values of the functions are provably unique, the correct value is provable, and consistency (just the fact of consistency here, I think, not its provability) rules out a contradictory proof of an incorrect value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I should not have said, &#8220;simultaneoulsy searches for a proof of P and a proof of NOT Provable(P).&#8221; Rather, it should have been &#8220;a proof of NOT Provable(P) and a proof of NOT Provable(NOT P).&#8221; That&#8217;s the form that is supported directly by the formula expressing consistency. I think (still worried that I&#8217;ve missed a loophole) that the special forms of formulae expressing the values of provably total computable functions make NOT Provable(NOT P) a satisfactory substitute for P.</p>
<p>That is, to get an actual value of a provably total computable function, there is indeed a proof of P, and with provable consistency that yields a proof of NOT Provable (NOT P), and rules out a proof of NOT Provable(P). So, the search above indeed finds all of the values of the provably totally computable functions. It cannot find an incorrect value, because the values of the functions are provably unique, the correct value is provable, and consistency (just the fact of consistency here, I think, not its provability) rules out a contradictory proof of an incorrect value.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 5/12: Aidan Gray by Mike O'Donnell</title>
		<link>http://cas.uchicago.edu/workshops/formalphilosophy/2009/05/09/512-aidan-gray/comment-page-1/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike O'Donnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 02:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cas.uchicago.edu/workshops/formalphilosophy/?p=120#comment-20</guid>
		<description>I think that you found a really important insight about naming when you pointed out that the use of &quot;Glunk&quot; names decouples the co-operative problem of choosing a canonical name from the constraints and/or desiderata of other uses of language. The true force of the particular norm &quot;Q&quot; is not all that important to the insight. Every norm/constraint/desideratum derived from the descriptive meaning of language (or perhaps other concerns distinct from those to do with naming) is likely to collide with the norms of naming in some cases. Even the antithesis of Q could complicate the naming task.

I notice that similar conflicts arise in many informational phenomena, and are often resolved in a similar way. &quot;Junk&quot; DNA is particularly useful for identifying an organism, since it is not constrained by a physiological function and is therefore not affected much by natural selection. The law on trade names (not at all the same as copyright) makes whimsical names much easier to defend than names that might have been used descriptively by a reasonable disinterested party (e.g., it&#039;s easier to defend the name &quot;Glunk&quot; to identify a brand of chicken than the name &quot;Poultry&quot;.) The Domain Name System on the Internet is plagued by social, legal, criminal, and all sorts of struggle to control attractive names (&quot;sex.com&quot; was actually stolen through a criminal forgery---the thief made millions and skipped the country before being convicted of the forgery), which interfere with the use of domain names just as permanent identifiers. I have proposed adding an alternative set of names that look like random numbers for those who need a robust identifier and don&#039;t care to defend a contentious name. In other areas of computers science, it is very common to introduce arbitrary numerical codes for identities behind the scenes to resolve conflicts between different intuitive uses of names (e.g., variable names in programming languages are usually mapped to invisible arbitrary integers by the compiler).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that you found a really important insight about naming when you pointed out that the use of &#8220;Glunk&#8221; names decouples the co-operative problem of choosing a canonical name from the constraints and/or desiderata of other uses of language. The true force of the particular norm &#8220;Q&#8221; is not all that important to the insight. Every norm/constraint/desideratum derived from the descriptive meaning of language (or perhaps other concerns distinct from those to do with naming) is likely to collide with the norms of naming in some cases. Even the antithesis of Q could complicate the naming task.</p>
<p>I notice that similar conflicts arise in many informational phenomena, and are often resolved in a similar way. &#8220;Junk&#8221; DNA is particularly useful for identifying an organism, since it is not constrained by a physiological function and is therefore not affected much by natural selection. The law on trade names (not at all the same as copyright) makes whimsical names much easier to defend than names that might have been used descriptively by a reasonable disinterested party (e.g., it&#8217;s easier to defend the name &#8220;Glunk&#8221; to identify a brand of chicken than the name &#8220;Poultry&#8221;.) The Domain Name System on the Internet is plagued by social, legal, criminal, and all sorts of struggle to control attractive names (&#8220;sex.com&#8221; was actually stolen through a criminal forgery&#8212;the thief made millions and skipped the country before being convicted of the forgery), which interfere with the use of domain names just as permanent identifiers. I have proposed adding an alternative set of names that look like random numbers for those who need a robust identifier and don&#8217;t care to defend a contentious name. In other areas of computers science, it is very common to introduce arbitrary numerical codes for identities behind the scenes to resolve conflicts between different intuitive uses of names (e.g., variable names in programming languages are usually mapped to invisible arbitrary integers by the compiler).</p>
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		<title>Comment on 5/5: Sean Ebels-Duggan by Mike O'Donnell</title>
		<link>http://cas.uchicago.edu/workshops/formalphilosophy/2009/04/27/55-sean-ebels-duggan/comment-page-1/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike O'Donnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 20:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cas.uchicago.edu/workshops/formalphilosophy/?p=112#comment-19</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s one way to understand the independence of consistency from a computational point of view. I&#039;m pretty sure that this one doesn&#039;t depend on the choice of a classical vs. constructive theory.

There is a nice general theorem that &quot;subrecursive&quot; programming systems---systems in which all programs always halt (plus some weak assumptions about composability of programs, which are hard to avoid satisfying) cannot program their own interpreters. This is a major reason why all widely used programming languages allow infinite loops---to avoid the possibility of infinite loops they would give up the ability to write interpreters.

The provably total Turing Machines in almost any sensible theory of arithmetic form such a subrecursive programming system.

If our theory could prove FOR ALL P either NOT Provable(P) or NOT Provable(NOT P), then we could prove the termination of a TM that simultaneously searches for a proof of P and a proof of NOT Provable(P) (I&#039;m pretty sure that I got the positives and negatives right here, but it&#039;s confusing). By applying that program to formulae defining the functions computed by provably total TMs, we get a provably total interpreter for the provably total functions.

I&#039;m not totally confident that I haven&#039;t missed a loophole, but I think this is right. Not sure how satisfying it is. It certainly does not characterize provability of PI_1 formulae, but it relates independence of consistency to the provably total computable functions, which are the same ones that determine PI_2 reducibility to PI_1.

I think of the form FOR ALL P either NOT Provable(P) or NOT Provable(NOT P) as a constructive form of the statement of consistency. In a constructive theory, I suppose that we would prove this form directly. In a classical theory, it follows from the usual NOT Provable(0=1). I don&#039;t think it makes a difference to the connection with the provably total computable functions which way we do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s one way to understand the independence of consistency from a computational point of view. I&#8217;m pretty sure that this one doesn&#8217;t depend on the choice of a classical vs. constructive theory.</p>
<p>There is a nice general theorem that &#8220;subrecursive&#8221; programming systems&#8212;systems in which all programs always halt (plus some weak assumptions about composability of programs, which are hard to avoid satisfying) cannot program their own interpreters. This is a major reason why all widely used programming languages allow infinite loops&#8212;to avoid the possibility of infinite loops they would give up the ability to write interpreters.</p>
<p>The provably total Turing Machines in almost any sensible theory of arithmetic form such a subrecursive programming system.</p>
<p>If our theory could prove FOR ALL P either NOT Provable(P) or NOT Provable(NOT P), then we could prove the termination of a TM that simultaneously searches for a proof of P and a proof of NOT Provable(P) (I&#8217;m pretty sure that I got the positives and negatives right here, but it&#8217;s confusing). By applying that program to formulae defining the functions computed by provably total TMs, we get a provably total interpreter for the provably total functions.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not totally confident that I haven&#8217;t missed a loophole, but I think this is right. Not sure how satisfying it is. It certainly does not characterize provability of PI_1 formulae, but it relates independence of consistency to the provably total computable functions, which are the same ones that determine PI_2 reducibility to PI_1.</p>
<p>I think of the form FOR ALL P either NOT Provable(P) or NOT Provable(NOT P) as a constructive form of the statement of consistency. In a constructive theory, I suppose that we would prove this form directly. In a classical theory, it follows from the usual NOT Provable(0=1). I don&#8217;t think it makes a difference to the connection with the provably total computable functions which way we do it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 5/5: Sean Ebels-Duggan by Mike O'Donnell</title>
		<link>http://cas.uchicago.edu/workshops/formalphilosophy/2009/04/27/55-sean-ebels-duggan/comment-page-1/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike O'Donnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 21:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cas.uchicago.edu/workshops/formalphilosophy/?p=112#comment-18</guid>
		<description>To connect the independence of consistency to fast growing functions, it might be worth looking at a constructive theory, and the proof of consistency stated as FOR ALL P either NOT Provable(P) or NOT Provable(NOT P). In this form, a constructive proof provides a choice procedure for the unprovable side of a proposition, and the running time of such a procedure (perhaps only in the cases where either P or NOT P is provable, so the choice is constrained) might be the fast-growing function in question.

I thought of this point partly because I recalled that the question of provably reducing a PI_2 formula to a PI_1 formula, which depends entirely on the growth rate of the Skolem/witness function, turns out to be the same for Classical and Constructive proofs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To connect the independence of consistency to fast growing functions, it might be worth looking at a constructive theory, and the proof of consistency stated as FOR ALL P either NOT Provable(P) or NOT Provable(NOT P). In this form, a constructive proof provides a choice procedure for the unprovable side of a proposition, and the running time of such a procedure (perhaps only in the cases where either P or NOT P is provable, so the choice is constrained) might be the fast-growing function in question.</p>
<p>I thought of this point partly because I recalled that the question of provably reducing a PI_2 formula to a PI_1 formula, which depends entirely on the growth rate of the Skolem/witness function, turns out to be the same for Classical and Constructive proofs.</p>
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